16:56:05  Lados yawnies, and ponders a) a nap b) a bath or c) curling up with a
  book, now that he's finally found his copy of SCARS.
16:56:25  McGuffin oooooos and NEEDS that.
16:56:30  Jirris nods "It is good."
16:56:34  McGuffin notes that he also, ooooo, needs an income first.
16:56:48  Jirris snaps his fingers "That helps a lot."
16:57:22  You lilt, "Heh. Talk to Raffy. He's got something like 4,000 copies
  that aren't moving. Don't spread that around. He may have to find SOMETHING
  to do with them before tax time."
16:57:47  McGuffin hmmms and may just hit up the rat.
16:58:04  Darkwulf oifs.
16:58:08  McGuffin is already hitting up Chuan Lin for a peek at the next
  JadeClaw adventure.
17:00:16  Jirris quietly intones, "oopj."
17:00:16  Lados has suggested a Free With Purchase thing at the cons, and maybe
  even from the Web Site.
17:00:41  Jirris nods "Not a bad idea.."
17:00:45  Darkwulf nods.  "Sounds reasonable to me.
17:00:57  McGuffin mmmms.  "I like that."
17:01:08  You lilt, "I think we did that at FC, actually... no, we didn't. I
  don't think he BROUGHT any Scars to FC. If he had, my stemdaughter and her
  S.O. would have gotten a copy when they picked up IC and JC."
17:01:33  Jirris quietly intones, "There were just discounts on the game
  itself."
17:01:52  McGuffin says, "I don't think enough people even KNOW about the book,
  honestly."
17:01:59  You lilt, "I should also suggest palming them off on Rabbit Valley.
  They're used to dealing with a) furry fiction and b) a large inventory, and
  may actually get the whole line more exposure."
17:02:04  McGuffin grins at Lados.  "Recruiting the rest of the family."
17:02:14  Jirris giggles.
17:02:24  Lados nods. "Or the games. We've got a PR problem, and, alas, have
  had one since Stew left."
17:02:39  Lados grins. "Actually, yeah, I DID make that sale."
17:03:08  Jirris quietly intones, "I was a little irked when that happened. 
  You guys took a hell of a hit.  And I wanted that book I am not supposed to
  name."
17:03:38  McGuffin looks back and forth and has no idea what's going on.
17:05:03  Jirris quietly intones, "There was this AWESOME book that stew was
  gonna do.  It just *DIED* when he left.  Friends of mine and me were gonna so
  get copies."
17:05:51  You lilt, "Richard Stewart, our PR guy, left Sanguine a couple of
  years ago in a messy, nasty dispute. He took a new, non-CLAW project in
  development with him -- one that was in large part responsible for the
  disagreements that led to his leaving. That's why there was such a long gap
  between Jadeclaw and Bisclavret."
17:06:32  You lilt, "Actually, you can get the book. WotC bought it; it's their
  d20 Modern Guns book. Of course, they left out all of Raffy's stuff."
17:06:32  Darkwulf can't recall the project, but he's sure he'd heard of it.
17:06:43  Jirris blinks?!
17:06:46  Darkwulf ahhs.
17:06:56  Jirris quietly intones, "Huh.  Well crap... I hate Wotc though."
17:07:11  McGuffin ohs.  "Not pretty.  Not pretty at all."
17:07:27  McGuffin has encountered partnerships-falling-apart before.
17:07:30  You lilt, "Originally, there were going to be two books: the Guns
  Book, which was going to be dual-stat: Modern Firearms rules for both the
  CLAW system and d20/OGL."
17:08:31  You lilt, "Then, we were going to do 'Covert Action' (blah title --
  Rafferty preferred 'Headhunter', but the other partners voted him down),
  which was going to be a modern-day real-world action system based on the CLAW
  rules."
17:09:26  Jirris quietly intones, "And I knew people who were SCRABBLING to get
  that book"
17:09:51  You lilt, "This was before we decided that the common system of
  Ironclaw and Jadeclaw was going to be officially referred to as CLAW. Stew
  and some of the other partners wantedto make it a Generic System, whcih kind
  of runs contrary to Raffy's 'Rules Endorse Behavior' paradigm."
17:10:05  Lados nods. "It screwed Sanguine pretty badly."
17:10:36  You lilt, "And we STILL don't really have a PR guy. It's noticable."
17:11:19  Darkwulf squirms.  "Well, the plus side is no new products you need a
  PR guy for, to date..."
17:12:09  McGuffin says, "Which will be a problem when Mondrevele comes out."
17:12:20  You lilt, "And, um, ALBEDO??"
17:12:28  Jirris nods!
17:12:35  Jirris quietly intones, "Note the lack of PR guy"
17:12:36  You lilt, "Monderevele isn't a book. It's a line of books."
17:13:05  You lilt, "And... our CafePress paradigm is going to help with the
  production bottleneck, IF we can just start getting stuff WRITTEN."
17:13:24  Darkwulf shudders.  "CafePress does not a distributor make."
17:14:02  Somewhere on the muck, Lynn_Onyx has disconnected.
17:14:03  You lilt, "No, but we don't have to shell out thousands to get a book
  printed. It drops our overhead a LOT."
17:14:21  You lilt, "No Set-Up Costs. No Print Costs."
17:14:23  Darkwulf says, "It's a step back from being a professional company,
  though."
17:14:38  You lilt, "Maybe. The output is pretty professional-looking."
17:14:59  Darkwulf says, "Bye bye, brick-and-mortar."
17:15:28  You lilt, "The various game distributors were screwing us over
  ANYWAY. We weren't getting into the Brick & Mortar outlets."
17:15:53  Darkwulf's local game shop had and has copies, as well as customers.
17:16:19  Jirris quietly intones, "A local store here had one copy -- friend of
  mine bought it."
17:16:43  Lados nods. "I dunno what Raffy's plans are, really, as far as that
  goes. I'm a little concerned that A:PC is going to be sold Sight Unseen."
17:16:54  Jirris quietly intones, "A what?"
17:17:07  Darkwulf nods.  "It'll fly at AC, but not for the world at large."
17:17:09  McGuffin says, "Platinum Catylist."
17:17:18  You lilt, "My Local Game Store sold out whenever they got stuff in --
  except for ONE copy of Doloreaux that the proprieter wouldpoint to to prove
  that it 'didn't sell'."
17:17:26  McGuffin says, "Catalyst....catylast...change-inducing compound."
17:17:51  You lilt, "The distributors have a bad habit of saying 'out of print'
  when they MEAN 'we don't feel like ordering more from a little company'."
17:18:14  Lados shrugs. "The World At Large doesn't buy games."
17:18:32  Jirris quietly intones, "Ooh."
17:18:43  Darkwulf says, "An unheard-of furry game will sell at a furry con. 
  An unheard-of RPG won't sell elsewhere."
17:19:04  You lilt, "I know, I know. Browsing is important."
17:19:04  McGuffin says, "Again, it's the PR issue."
17:19:12  Jirris nods.
17:19:27  You lilt, "I, personally, won't buy a game unless I can page through
  it."
17:19:32  Darkwulf says, "Furry is the only genre that probably will recognize
  the name, so outside of the group that'd buy it simply because it's furry,
  there's not a lot of name value."
17:19:53  Jirris quietly intones, "It really is too bad that your PR guy flaked
  out... it is something you need."
17:20:12  Darkwulf says, "And you can't page through a book if it's
  printed/distributed by CafePress."
17:20:16  You lilt, "The 80/20 rule: 80% of your biz comes from 20% of your
  customers."
17:20:52  You lilt, "But we can't PUBLISH more than one book at a time if we
  have to scrape up the cash for each one."
17:21:00  Jirris nods.
17:21:05  McGuffin is an anal-retentive collector, for his part, but such
  golden-goose customers can't be counted on.
17:21:29  You lilt, "And then get stuck with 4,000 copies that won't sell.
  SCARS was Stew's idea, too. So were the pewter miniatures that we wound up
  losing money on. "
17:21:29  Jirris quietly intones, "And you need to have multiple things running
  if this is to go anywhere else."
17:21:46  Jirris nods.
17:21:48  You lilt, "You all know that none of this leaves this room, of
  course. Da?"
17:21:56  McGuffin had wondered what happened to those things.  "My local game
  shop had those, the day I bought the core manual.  Haven't seen 'em since."
17:22:00  McGuffin says, "Jawohl."
17:22:02  Jirris quietly intones, "Minatures are risky to begin with..."
17:22:08  You lilt, "Well, we've got BACKLOG of promised titles and ideas."
17:22:21  Jirris nods "I know."
17:22:23  Darkwulf shrugs.  "Go the Monte Cook route.  Ebooks."
17:22:30  You lilt, "The minis actually sold fairly well -- but Sanguine lost
  money on'em."
17:22:36  Jirris quietly intones, "ooph."
17:22:56  You lilt, "I'm sorry -- if CafePress is a step back from
  professionalism, then eBooks are a giant LEAP off that balcony behind you."
17:23:38  You lilt, "I know there are a lot of companies out there selling
  ebooks for games, but I'm not gonna pay $20 or more for something I can't
  hold in my hand."
17:23:45  Darkwulf nods.  "But if publishing cost is your biggest problem..."
17:24:03  You lilt, "Especially not when I have no way of guaranteeing that you
  won't just burn off a copy for all your friends."
17:24:10  Darkwulf says, "http://www.drivethrurpg.com/"
17:24:14  Darkwulf shudders.
17:24:22  Jirris nods "I agree -- I can't stand the idea that if I want it to
  be portable, I'm going to have to run off pages of text and slap it in a
  binder.
17:24:25  You lilt, "I see CafePress as a step UP from eBooks."
17:24:41  McGuffin nods to Lados, re:  holding in the hands.  "There's
  something about hard copy."
17:24:48  Jirris nods.
17:25:06  You lilt, "Hardcopy is portable, secure, easyier to reference --
  eBooks have a long way to go beforethey become SKIMMABLE."
17:25:13  Darkwulf is getting printed/bound copies of his ebooks.  But that
  puts the "publishing" cost on HIM.
17:26:00  You lilt, "CafePress has the same outlay -- zilch. We take a smaller
  cut, but the buyer gets something tangible -- and hard to copy."
17:26:44  Darkwulf says, "DriveThrough uses secure PDF format.  Which I
  personally don't like, but it gets the job done."
17:27:01  You lilt, "I like BOOKS."
17:28:43  Darkwulf says, "I like books, too.  And stuff with staples and floppy
  covers don't strike me as books."
17:28:45  Darkwulf wasn't too impressed with the Rinaldi re-issue, physically
  speaking.
17:29:23  You lilt, "And CafePress's print quality is decent-to-good. The one
  big problem with Rinaldi was that the old file for the cover art was munged."
17:29:26  McGuffin says, "Not having seen the original Rinaldi, I'm reasonably
  pleased with the reprint.  It's a bit flimsy, perhaps, but I'll take it."
17:29:46  Jirris has only seen the old one -- well, in his hands that is.
17:30:01  Darkwulf says, "That's the thing.  I'd be afraid to toss it in my
  game bag."
17:30:06  You lilt, "Note that the ORIGINAL Rinaldi had staples and floppy
  covers. That's one reason why it was the ideal test run. The LATER stuff is
  going to be square-bound."
17:30:20  Jirris nods "Ah, I see"
17:30:30  McGuffin ooooos and approves!
17:30:33  Darkwulf says, "The original Rinaldi's covers were at least
  card-stock."
17:30:45  You lilt, "I do wish the staple-bound stuff had a heavier cardstock
  cover, but, oh well."
17:31:22  You lilt, "We'll see what the physical quality on A:PC is."
17:31:31  Darkwulf snickers.  "We're bringing up the same points, and then
  disagreeing over whether they're tolerable write-offs."
17:31:45  You lilt, "guys, may I have permission to send this log to The Rat?"
17:31:58  Darkwulf says, "You have mine."
17:32:10  McGuffin says, "Likewise."
17:32:29  Jirris nods "I didn't contribute much anywho."
17:32:44  You lilt, "Of course, this assumes that my fershlugginer dial-up ISP
  and my domain host ever cooperate long enough to SEND mail."
17:33:11  Jirris snirks "Welcome to the fabulous world of Jirris' internet.
17:34:24  You lilt, "Hm. A dual-distribution scheme might work: Your choice of
  Secure PDF OR a CafePress volume. Tweak the price points so we get about the
  same cut either way."
17:34:25  Darkwulf says, "So, A:PC is published via CafePress?"
17:34:45  Jirris scratches his chin "That might work."
17:34:52  You lilt, "It will be, from what I understand. I don't know if Raffy
  will have hardcopies availablefor AC, but I know he's TRYING."
17:35:29  Darkwulf nods.  "I was under the impression he was.  It'd suck to
  have a grand launch for something you can't have.  And I fully intended to
  buy it.
17:36:06  Jirris nods "I hope he does manage to get some copies.
17:36:11  Darkwulf says, "Sight-unseen.  ;)"
17:36:18  Jirris quietly intones, "People tend to spend more cash at cons
  anyways."
17:36:19  Lados grins.
17:36:46  Lados has Seen Sights. It looks good. But it's not gonna be thick.
17:37:05  Jirris quietly intones, "Ooph."
17:37:20  You lilt, "On the other claw, unlike the last editions, it won't have
  Huge Fonts, Oversized Arrt, and Copious Whitespace, either."
17:37:30  Jirris nods "Ah, alright then."
17:37:59  McGuffin smirks.  "Amazing how much paper you can save that way..."
17:38:05  Darkwulf wasn't really put off by any of those things.  They didn't
  detract enough to be noticeable.
17:38:18  Jirris did have a problem with that.  "Composition is really
  something that I have a keen edge for."
17:38:27  You lilt, "And it's Not Thick because the new system is Clean,
  Complete and Concise. It does stuff nobody's ever done in a game before, it
  does all the USUAL stuff, and it STILL doesn't take up hundreds of pages. As
  a GAME, this system ROCKS."
17:38:44  You lilt, "I just think the SETTING is lame."
17:38:44  Darkwulf did a naughty thing, though.
17:39:06  You lilt, "Oh?"
17:39:11  Jirris snaps his fingers "Good.  I will be ordering mine sometime in
  the next few months."
17:39:32  Jirris laughs "Having someone to play it with might pose problems
  however."
17:39:33  Darkwulf says, "Friend of mine spazzed out because he forgot to get a
  copy of Time of Monsters.  So I gave him my damaged copy that CafePress
  replaced for free."
17:39:47  Jirris chuckles a bit.
17:39:51  Lados notes that the last two version of Albedo were published in an
  era when such sloppy formatting was by and large par for the course,
  especially in off-brand products.
17:39:55  McGuffin hugs Jirris.  "I feel your pain."
17:40:11  Darkwulf has a copy of second-edition Albedo on one of his game
  shelves.
17:40:25  You lilt, "Again, Stuff I Shouldn't Be Telling You:"
17:40:43  McGuffin officially plugs his ears.
17:40:45  Jirris quietly intones, "Yeah, all my gaming buddies either a> do
  other stuff now or b> went off to learn nuclear engineering."
17:40:53  Jirris hides!  Put he peeks.
17:41:20  You lilt, "Raffy is seriously considering using the system he's
  developed for A:PC in a modern-day organized crime game that one of the
  partners has suggested."
17:41:58  Darkwulf says, "So, does A:PC use a modified Claw, or is it a
  separate system?"
17:42:08  ( Organized crime? )
17:42:09  ( Don't fool yourself.  It's not that organized. )
17:42:10  Lados smirks. "I think we've all decided that the system is too good
  to, um, waste on Gallacci's sloppy setting."
17:42:17  You lilt, "Seperate system."
17:42:26  Jirris snirks.
17:42:34  Darkwulf says, "Raffy spends too much time coming up with game
  mechanics, then.  ;)"
17:42:39  Jirris laughs.
17:42:59  McGuffin worships The Rat.
17:43:00  You lilt, "It STARTED as something Raffy insisted on calling 'Claw
  Lite', but even at that point, he'd changed so much of it that as far as I
  was concerned, it didn't resemble CLAW much at all."
17:43:02  Darkwulf barely has time to come up with house rules, let alone
  entire systems.  ;)
17:43:41  You lilt, "That's why you let a professional do it for you! A good
  game doesn't NEED house rules. Too many publishers slop out Any Old Shit, and
  then blame the players if the game's unplayable."
17:43:41  Jirris giggles "I'd love to stay and talk shop but people want the
  phone and my gameboy modding needs a coat of paint.
17:43:49  Jirris nods!
17:43:52  You lilt, "Oh, sainted Helloise, I'm TALKING like him now."
17:43:57  You hug Jirris!
17:43:57  Somewhere on the muck, Tanan has disconnected.
17:43:59  Darkwulf snickers.
17:44:09  Jirris laughs!
17:44:12  McGuffin hugs Jirris!
17:44:13  McGuffin says, "Be well."
17:44:16  Jirris hugs around and passes out on a couch
17:44:24  Jirris has disconnected.
17:44:34  Darkwulf says, "The problem is, to do the job really well, Raffy will
  probably have to make it his day job.  And he can't afford to do that. 
  Catch-22."
17:45:32  You lilt, "But, yeah. On the ICML, we've had people bitch because
  such and such is a problem or isn't balanced or something in the system is
  'broken', and it turns out they've got 'house rules' that completely screw
  everything up. Like ignoring Resolve."
17:45:53  McGuffin snorts.
17:45:57  You lilt, "Well, yeah. It'd be nice if people COULD make a living in
  this industry. But realistically? Keep your day job."
17:46:32  Darkwulf says, "Of all the amateur game companies, Sanguine is the
  most professional.  But it's still not quite."
17:46:53  McGuffin says, "I've heard the argument made, though, that a bit of
  rule-mangling is necessary to make the game playable.  Of course, the only
  person I've actually heard this from has a history of difficulty separating
  reality from fantasy."
17:47:26  Lados notes that Sanguine isn't the ONLY game company he's got an
  insider's view on. "My OTHER best friend, Brad, is Office Manager/Editor for
  Eos Press, formerly Hobgoblynn Press -- they did 'Godlike'. They've actually
  got a couple of people sorta-kinda on day-job payrolls -- but they're
  bankrolled by someone with a lot of cash.
17:47:45  Lados ohs? at McG.
17:48:54  McGuffin nods to Lados.  "He's into Werewolf in a big way...as in, he
  once went feral on a Player because of a snit between their respective
  characters.  This was not, by the way, during a LARP."
17:49:05  McGuffin thinks he's mentioned this bozo before.
17:49:29  Darkwulf nod.  "And Monte runs his own company now, but he started
  off with years of experience and networking."
17:49:45  You lilt, "The ONLY house rule we have in our game is The Gold Coin.
  If someone says something that sufficiently amuses the Host, he tosses the
  player a Gold Coin (from a bag of plastic Pirate's Gold that's been in my
  Game Props for years). We accumulated a bunch of them before we decided what
  to DO with the. Now, each Gold Coin you cash in gives you a +1 to your final
  Score, with a MAXIMUM of what you could normally roll. It doesn't really
  throw things out of balance, because the coins are SCARCE."
17:50:52  Darkwulf was and will yet again run a D&D custom-world game.
17:50:54  McGuffin says, "Personally, I like that things are sufficiently open
  to allow for GH interpretation.  Over time, such interpretations could evolve
  into a system of house rules.  But I draw the line at actually changing the
  mechanic as given."
17:51:21  Lados nods. "Eos has a couple of Well Known And Well Regarded Names.
  That helps them. But it's a two-edged sword."
17:52:05  You lilt, "Oh, setting-specific house rules are another matter
  entirely. Of course, I don't consider 'new setting' to be the same as
  'rules'. I'm Old Skool. You BUY rules, you MAKE setting."
17:52:21  Lados nods re: interpretation.
17:52:38  Somewhere on the muck, TealFox has reconnected.
17:52:40  Darkwulf is going to implement a house rule he saw in Pyramid,
  though.  ;)
17:53:16  McGuffin is reminded of something:  He needs to write up that
  Jakobaling G&P-Culture mage.
17:53:33  McGuffin hrms? at DW?
17:54:22  Darkwulf says, "One of the staff-writers for Pyramid was talking
  about his game, and how he used something called "hero points", gained when
  you do something heroic."
17:55:13  Lados has used that before. Back in 1980-84 or so. He called'em
  'Style Points'.
17:55:17  Darkwulf says, "However, one of the players once did something
  particularly, uncharacteristically nasty.  So he, for the first time, awarded
  a "villain point".  Which did absolutely nothing but sit on her character
  sheet and make her uncomfortable, wondering exactly what she could do with
  it.  ;)"
17:55:44  You lilt, "and now they're cropping up all over the place. d20
  Modern, Mutants & Masterminds, Unearthed Arcana for D&D 3.5..."
17:55:52  McGuffin snickers.  "Ah...the Hissing Fuse technique."
17:55:55  You lilt, "Oh my goodness."
17:56:12  You lilt, "I LIKE that."
17:56:37  Darkwulf says, "It worked, because the characters WERE heroic, and
  she didn't WANT to be evil."
17:56:39  McGuffin grins at Lados.  "I've had that happen.  I come up with a
  good idea, don't tell anyone about it, and soon I see someone else put his
  name on it and make money."
17:57:36  Darkwulf says, "When she wanted to do something, but didn't think she
  could pull it off, he pointedly reminded her that she had a villain point she
  could spend.  And she practically withered  ;)"
17:57:47  You lilt, "I like the Gold Coins we use in Ironclaw. Again, I like
  TANGIBLES. They worked so well that we went out and got a bag of glass
  MTG-style counters to use for Hero Points in M&M. It's more VISCERAL when you
  hear that 'clunk' of the counter in the jar when you spend a point. It also
  makes it easier to keep TRACK."
17:58:07  Darkwulf nods.  "Deadlands.  Cards and poker chips."
17:58:40  You lilt, "Actually, I think I may have snagged the idea from the
  Fortune Points or whatever they used in TOP SECRET. I just thought it worked
  well for a swashbuckling AD&D game."
17:59:01  McGuffin notes that this is also a major argument against
  credit/debit cards.  You're less likely to spend the money if you can SEE it,
  FEEL it leaving your hand.
17:59:24  Darkwulf likes dollar coins for that reason.  Five bucks is
  substantial.  ;)
17:59:41  You lilt, "Yeah, but they only used the cards for character creation,
  which kind of watered'em down. The chips were a nice touch,though. We would
  have used chips for IC, if we hadn't already had the coins -- and the coins
  actually work much better."
17:59:43  Darkwulf says, "Plus, there's the whole shiny gold coin thing."
17:59:55  Lados mmmmms, hoard.
18:00:05  Darkwulf isn't a dragon, dammit.  Rar.  ;)
18:00:30  You lilt, "You just have a better collection of shiny things than
  Quel and I put together."
18:01:01  Darkwulf seems to recall having eaten a dragon once, though.  Maybe
  that has something to do with it.  ;)
18:01:08  You lilt, "Only once?"
18:01:20  ( A dragon like that, you don't eat all at once... )
18:01:27  Lados spit-takes.
18:01:52  McGuffin bows as much as he can.
18:02:13  Darkwulf chuckles.
18:02:16  You lilt, "Okay, I think we've wandered far enough away from
  Sanguine's Business Plan that I'm officially Ending The Raffy Log Here."